[Dean's World] Dave Price: Challenge to Aziz (And Anyone Else Who Would Pick Up the Gauntlet)

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Posted by Dave Price:
Challenge to Aziz (And Anyone Else Who Would Pick Up the Gauntlet)
http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1183143680.shtml


   Aziz [1]says this is the principle upon which he bases his opposition
   of the Iraq war (and, presumably, Afghanistan, since the same
   principle applies):

     - Lasting regime change for the purposes of
     liberalization/democratization can not succeed if driven primarily
     by foreign military intervention.

   I've seen this assertion from war opponents fairly often, and I
   suspect this is more a case of rationalizing a position ex post facto
   because as best I can tell it just doesn't rest on any evidence,
   regardless of the modifications proposed by Aziz. In fact, it is
   almost exactly the opposite of what the evidence argues: U.S.-led
   military operations to enact regime change have actually been
   incredibly effective in creating liberal democracies, from the obvious
   examples of Japan and Germany to those where the causation was
   arguably more indirect such as Italy or Vichy France, and even
   [2]Panama seems to belong on the list of such successful operations.
   In fact, I can't seem to find any examples where such an effort
   failed! So here's my challenge:
   Name me a U.S. military operation enacting regime change with the
   purpose of creating democracy that failed.
   A single example would not, of course, prove Aziz' principle, but
   surely the lack of any must doom it, given the counter-evidence.
   Note that we did not invade Iran in 1953 (nor were we trying to
   democratize it; quite the opposite), and that in Vietnam we were
   defending an existing government, not invading to overthrow and
   replace it.
   Let me also note that in all these cases (including Iraq and
   Afghanistan) there were obviously cassus belli other than the desire
   to create liberal democracy, but democratization/liberalization was
   manifestly a factor in all of them as well, as evidenced by the fact
   we did demand relatively liberal and democratic governments rather
   than establishing friendly dictators or negotiating for peace under
   terms that left their leadership intact once the bulk of their
   warmaking ability had been eliminated.

References

   1. http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1183123999.shtml
   2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_panama